Hmm, ooh, a response! Let's see... does he feel grateful...privileges... immeasurably so..immeasurably so? Hmm, Hence his arguments?! Feelings... U.S. more liberated...incredible places....vast potential. What?! No no no no no!
Not enough poetry? Welcome here? Try and stop me!
I tried, I tried, I tried. I, but, where does he... Cleansing breathe, IN, OUT. Pitcher. You have stated numerous times that you want to leave, and in the context that this country is not democratic anymore. AND I QUOTE "fucking America." This was in the context of some asshole throwing eggs at you or something, what this has to do with poetry or democracy or this country sucking, I don't know. What have you done to change anything. Possibly voted, ooh ooh, protested! You take your freedoms and mine and you shit on them. You shit on every person before you that has sacrificed their life to make sure you remain free! Poetry does not bring freedom.
Pay attention. FReedom is costly it must be taken by force and maintained by force cause someone will always want to steal it from you. Freedom allows you the time to contrive your pooetry (my spelling) Pacifism, what the fuck, I think it's just your way of hiding your cowardice. It takes intelligence to know when to fight.
You are absolutely a racist motherfucker.
You think that "people of color" are incapable of living on a level playing field. Or do you only mean people of African descent? What about the Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Indian(people from India) and others that have done time as slave labor somewhere on this planet if not here? THey have all seemed to integrate just fine into American culture with out needing handouts. You are a stupid liberal robot. Blacks, African Americans, People of color, what ever is politically correct nowadays, Are done an incredible disservice by people like you that give them handouts. You are now responsible for the way their subculture exists because you have made them dependent, yes you are keeping them slaves not I, I would prefer they be judged like anyone else by the same standards because I have faith in people AND I KNOW THAT THEY WILL RISE TO THEIR OWN EXPECTATIONS! Not the expectstions of some sniveling honky in Berkeley bitching about his broken down saturn that his parents probably bought for him in the first place.
And I did not apologize, Go back and read what I typed. It is not an apology. An apology was dependent upon what you would have typed. YOU ARE A SPOILED ROTTEN MOTHERFUCKER. Anger and vitriol? You ain't seen nothing yet. Look at what you are reading, tell me that it is not biased. Look at this country and tell me that we keep the black man down. I'm misinformed? That is laughable you don't know what your fucking with. There is an animal in Africa called the honey badger. It is considered the most tenacious animal in the world.
It makes the American badger look like a liberal.
Baby, I'm your new honey badger.
Wine, I must have an outlet, so let it be, here, wine. Common ground for the civilized man. Todays suggestion: White zinfandel. This is a mediocre wine. It saved Napa valley in the 80's when their industry was suffering. There is no better wine suited for a box. I absolutely despise mediocrity. May it die a horrible painful death. IIf for some reason you decide upon a white zin, let it be a mondavi, for he is responsible for The concoction. If your interested in a good desert wine, a romantic evening for two, Lava caps muscat cannelli. This is a very sweet wine, prepar yourself. Best sipped from the navel.
J

And another thing, you (collective) do not sound more intelligent when using any of the 3 words: Rather, quite, perhaps. So all of you, stop using them when you're sending posts. It just illustrates mediocre intelligence. Yes, I have used all three in past posts but I was trying to show how ridiculous some of you sounded\looked (this is a visual medium after all). Here, let me give you an example: I rather think most of the people on this site are idiots, but it's quite entertaining. Perhaps I'll never go away. See, It just sounds pretentious. I slay me. Doesn't anyone have a sense of humor. John

Pitcher,

The music and the journal always inspire me to think deep thoughts that I must say can deeply sadden me at times but overall help me rethink life. And I thank you for helping me muster up the motivation to leave a graduate program that washed all the joy out of me.

And John R., Go drink yourself a white zin and do yourself another favor, take that hateful energy of yours and use it to give that neglected dick of yours a slap--then if you can afford it, go travel.

Cheers
Andy Lee

QUITE plainly, the post by Andy Lee is RATHER funny. PERHAPS you should take the advice JR.

This is so ugly. I cannot believe what I read here. All of it. Everyone involved should be ashamed.

All of you.

I will never come back to this ridiculous place. What a waste of technology.

Amen.

Amen.

Ola i mia oe'
hakuwale ia.

koa wai, haku mele.

It appears JR has moved in for good. I have to admit that the irony of the situation creases a smile. As stated in a previous post of mine, Pitcher supports groups on this website that do this type of protesting, hacking, civil disobedience to companies they deem to be evil. Now I don't think that Pitcher is evil and I have no idea what he did to JR but the people who think JR should simply disappear because he isn't toeing the line are missing the point and being hypocritical. There is an internet worm wreaking havoc and it's name is John Rensing. Funny.

ps..As for Armand, the real waste of technology is Windows.

......and if you're spending time getting pissed over Rensing's posts you're probably spending more energy on that than he is in writing 'em.

I honestly, sincerely, hope that no one spends time being pissed off by what I'm saying. If it makes a difference to anyone I am laughing the whole time. Of course maybe that makes me evil..
naah. John

You know, I think if any of you met me you would like me. I've given some thought to going to Pitchers next gig, but he'd probably give me up and I'd end up with lattes all over me.

john is RATHER a waste of flesh.
PERHAPS john is a waste of flesh.
john is QUITE a waste of flesh.

Armand and your mother would be ashamed, fuckface.

I have this strange feeling, that as time passes, and everyone has the one-uppances (mine included) out of their systems, this forum will get back to the spirit of true discourse. It is ugly for now, but babies are ugly when they first breach the firmaments of the womb, are they not?
Meanwhile, behind the facade of an innocent-looking bookstore.....

Babies are ugly and the need for this forum to resucitate is great so let's do a dance, shall we, and get back to something more intelligent than this rather, perhaps, quite nonsense (though JR's perception is dead on). Where's Christian, where's JR, where's the spirit of intellectaul debate? And where's JP? Is he counseling the new members of the tribe (fuckface, Armand and Andy) about how to take these things more lightly and possibly add something of depth to the proceedings? Hopefully. I'm always looking for a new post, myself. Now back to my glass of white zin and my "How To" book about back water sheds.

I had the good fortune of completing my first read of For Whom the Bell Tolls while listening to a very rough, early mix of I Am Not in Spain on an airplane over the Pacific Ocean. That's pretty much as good as it gets, I have to say.

It's a brilliant record, and a brilliant book. Who's read it here and what do they think about it? Perhaps we can fire up an intelligent, literate discussion about it here.

Christian

i haven't read it... looking forward to hearing the album. busy reading politics, educating myself. have you read No Logo, christian? just finished that. i feel i'm playing catch up, everyone seems to have read it already, from radiohead on down.

A morsel to chew on regarding No Logo-

On my version on page 11, there is a little graph that purportedly shows how advertising has taken over the world in the last twenty years.
The numbers are startling; from a figure of just fifty billion dollars in the late 1970s to a figure of 200 billion dollars in the late 1990s. This compared to a figure of just 4 billion in 1960. The only problem you see, is that she has not (or at least not as far I can see), either taken into account inflation or the growth in GDP during this time. So if GDP and inflation together had averaged 7 per cent a year for twenty years (which seems reasonable), then it stands to reason that advertising expenditure would increase four times. Now if this was some throwaway aspect of the book, not really all that important, then it may not matter, unfortunately it is the premise behind the entire story. If real advertising expenditure has not increased during the last twenty years, then on what grounds would you write a book decrying the explosion in advertising? In other words, either I and my friends are wrong and missed some important labels or the book is a complete fraud.
The other important point is that if advertising expenditure was 4 billion in 1960 and 50 billion in 1980, then surely the rate of growth during this period was far greater than in the next twenty years?
What can I say, but this book is unbelievably stupid. The entire style of the book is taking unrepresentative examples and trying to flog them off as representing all advertising behaviour. Not only that half of her examples hardly amount to any sort of malfeasance on the part of corporations anyway, some of the heinous crimes they commit amount to employing black people (Nike hiring Tiger Woods), and selling goods at a cheaper rate (Wal-Mart). At one point she castigates a security guard for not being up to date on his Ayn Rand; talk about a strawman, this author actually believes that if she can outsmart the average security guard, this somehow makes her arguments airtight. This book reminds me of Michel Foucault, lots and lots of facts, and stories and gripping yarns, all thoroughly researched, but the stories just simply don't say what the author wants them to say, and even if they did, they only constitute a small and non-random sample anyway. To be fair, Foucault was ten times more brilliant than Klein, and he would never have forgotten to include inflation in time series data.
But I think the worst part of this book, is its outright refusal to contemplate the other side of the argument. When you want to write a polemic then you give your own side of the argument and then try to refute as best you can the relevant arguments of the other side. The counter argument to Klein's polemic is that brands combat a phenomenon called asymmetric information. If I do not know the quality of a particular product a priori, and somebody can demonstrate credibly (say by advertising) that they have a vested interest in the quality of the product then I am likely to pay a premium price in order to have the "guarantee" of quality. This is because I, like most people am risk averse. This is one of the main reasons that we have brands, there are other reasons to advertise of course but this is one argument that Klein does not try to refute at all.

Oh, and Dave, make sure you balance your political reading. I would recommend The Economist, a fantastic magazine out of the UK, which lacks hyperbole and fear tactics.

Read it, enjoyed it as I have all Hemingway, for he was a true man, (take that how you will). And T, white zin? For god sake man, you showed such potential. Don't make me come over there.
I recently finished A Farewell to Arms. The Old Man and the Sea will always be my favorite.
I hope this post was aceptable to everyone. It took great self control upon my part. But before I go... Pitcher, you owe me a mix cd. You posted on Jan 10 I believe, and stated that the first 5 people to respond would recieve a mixed cd from you. Since I was the second person to post, well, you know. And since you are a man of your word, well you know. And people, if I'm not mistaken there are still 3 spots left so get over to January 2003, look up the 10th (only 2 posts at present) and get crackin'! A mixed cd from Jeff Pitcher, I can't wait! Oh, just one last thing.
Mr. Chin ring dingO, You sir are an angry man. Almost as angry as Pitcher. I can't believe people have gone off on me recently when they have been exposed to you this whole time! You are the poster child of anger and vitriol infested souls. How do you justify the things you have typed here? Shameful.
Hunter John, master of contraversy, Lord of the Posts.(this place was never so interesting.)

Forgive me, I hate when I make mistakes, fortunately its rare. The actual date of Pitchers free mixed cd post is DECEMBER 10th 2002. Still 3 spots left if anyone wants a free mixed cd!
Helpful John

i am putting this here instead of on the dec. 2002 post, but it still counts, john. #3.
jeff, i think i emailed you about the disc when that post first arrived. a letter and a mix cd would be lovely. time permitting. also, is it possible to hear your new disc? i have relocated to portland, email me if you need my address.

I like to read. I don't label the books I read, i.e., political, philisophical, adventure, etc.
I just read. I do lean toward certain genres but I don't read these exclusivley. For those of you that have read Nologo, I ask; did you do this for entertainment purposes, educational purposes, both or other? John.

john~
mostly educational. my ignorance about the goings-on in the cultural and political world is severe. and t of course i will consider both sides of the argument. i don't intend to simply read the rhetoric of those i on some level "wish" to agree with solely to fortify a belief. although the tendency is there. i am interested in both sides. in relation to prior mentions, i was going to start re-reading The Fountainhead, which i haven't read since i was 17. if i recall it was due to pitcher's influence that i read it in the first place... (i've since decided to put it on hold). also i was going to start on some chomsky. it amuses me the thought of reading ayn rand and chomsky at the same time. over.

Since when does anyone need to justify what they say here? I am an angry little troll, full of vitriol, and I am on the aggressive side. I am comfortable with that part of my personality. I am the great runner up, the great almost was, the last resort for master-debating. Blah Blah Blah. Perspective is a key word here, although apparently some perspectives that may be percieved as bad, are dismissed if not disallowed by the righteous and indignant posters in this forum. Drink the liquor of my rotten-apple mentality, and be drunk on the futility of criticising us lesser beings. Sorry mom and dad, for embarrasing you, you losers.

I've never read the Fountainhead. That's embarrassing to me. You'd think that a literature teacher would have read the Fountainhead, particularly a literature teacher who hangs with the likes of Jeff Pitcher. But no, no, no, I have not.

& the sad thing is: I haven't read it strictly because it's just too long. I don't have 3 months to devote to reading anything. This underscores one of the main failings of doing graduate work in something you love: you can no longer do that love for fun. (Like a friend who became a fisheries expert and then HAD to fish to get research samples--not as fun as fishing for pleasure). So I read and read but my reading time is constricted by my choices.

Point, there is none.

I also have not read No Logo, which is remarkable as I teach similar books and discuss similar subjects, including Fast Food Nation. I understand t's comments on No Logo, although completely discounting the entire book (as a complete fraud) seems a bit extreme. (Although again, I haven't read it.) The logic of Eric Schlosser in Fast Food Nation has a bunch of holes as well, but you can't discount is out of hand.

nor have i read no logo. the intention has existed, but i've not made the time. i too question the extremity of t's analysis. though it sounds well informed {one must ALWAYS question statistical data} i believe simply from experience, that advertising has become far more widespread...over the last ten years especially. while i agree that it would be difficult to surpass the great brilliance of foucault, and surely any sound argument should consider both sides, i don't feel klein's book should be thrown out so quickly. again, i remind you that i have not read the book, but i have read a decent amount about the subject from author's such as robert mcchesney, and james mackinnon. aside from the fact that i do believe advertising has infiltrated more arenas of our lives such as the ads before films, on the floors of grocery stores, above urinals in men's rooms etc., i feel as though the way in which advertising is directed has become much more invasive. though i greatly disliked the film, the scene in minority report when tom cruise walks into the gap and is greeted personally, is to me a great example of the direction advertisement is headed. true, her data may be flawed, but i feel as though her point remains true. i also question what is defined as advertising. would one define the contracts that coca-cola has with public schools providing free soda AND computers as advertising, or are they just being kind and helping the kids make friends on the world wide web and rev up their dental bills? hmmmmmm

It's the ads before the films that kill me. Did I not just Pay to enter the theater. This is the most egregious example of Ad Man desperation. If I Pay for HBO (which I do not, I don't own a tv) than I would be free of what, yes that's it, commercials. But, now, if I Pay to see a movie I get commercials. I hate it.
Does this sound contradictory?
It may to you but it is not. I do not like ads and I avoid them but I do not wish death and destruction on the culture that produces them. I believe in capitalism, I believe in 'the masses' and most importantly, I believe in choice. Not the choice you think is right for me but the choice I make for myself. We have become entangled in regulations and laws and some of these laws that I'm sure you supported (3 Strikes) have failed on a grand scale. Must wear a seatbelt, must wear a helmet, must have insurance, must shake your dick 3 times before stepping away from the urninal...on and on it goes, must not be rich, rich people are evil, must be orgamic, put a sticker on it, Stop your involvment in my life. Let's focus on the big issues and not worry whether or not the Corvair is safe. (which it was, by the way. And so are GM corn stalks)

i laugh heartily at the idea that there someday would be regulations as to how many times i must shake my penis before stepping away from the urinal. due to the fact that everyone is genetically different, maybe we would all have to go down to the dmv for the government to decide if i'm a two-shaker a three or a four. hell, maybe soon people will begin to advertise on their penis'. good points t. oh and no, i did not support the 3 strikes law. still don't.

I heartily support the 3 shakes law, though. And I think it should be illegal for men to leave their cursed piss droppings on the edge of the toilet seat, particularly in someone else's house. Perhaps a felony there. Only a misdemeanor at home.

there is a wonderful paragraph in the beginning of "love in the time of cholera" by Garcia Marquez where he talks at length about how important it is to the character to wipe the piss droppings from the bowl after finishing his business. we agree with your dear christian...i'll try to find the piece later~

All kidding aside, I myself do wipe the piss droppings from the rim of the bowl after finishing my business. I also pat the tip of Little Elvis with some tissue at the end of my business in order to avoid leakage into my boxers. Trying to prevent the ol' piss running down the leg scenario. All along I thought maybe it had something to do with my OCD. Maybe the fact that this Garcia Marquez person you speak of discusses it means I'm not too obsessive. Any other OCD habits out there?

I should clarify something. I don't go carrying around tissue in public in order to do the patting process. Only something that is done in homes. I've found that no matter how many times I shake there is always a drop or two left. In case you were wondering...Sorry for the graphics.